Nottinghamshire

Nottingham Forest fan Ellie Molloson has expressed unhappiness with the VAR decision to disallow Neco Williams' goal against Tottenham Hotspur in the 0-0 game on Saturday.

Williams was adamant the ball came off his head and did not touch his hand after the VAR disallowed his goal. New footage - which you can watch below on this Nottingham Forest page - has since emerged of the incident.

Supporter Molloson said: "We were told at the start of the season there would be a higher threshold for on-field decisions being overturned. Already we have a very questionable decision.

"It ruins the fan experience, it's scary to celebrate goals now because no matter how sure you are there is a risk.

"I've gone back and watched that clip so many times and I still cannot comfortably say that is a hand ball. It's not clear, it is not obvious.

"Forest have been robbed two points."

Has the fan experience been ruined by VAR? Do you worry celebrating goals too early? Should the goal have stood? Get in touch with your views here.

Dale Johnson
Football issues correspondent

New video footage has been released that shows the ball coming off Neco Williams' arm in the lead-up to his disallowed goal in the 0-0 draw against Tottenham Hotspur.

The Nottingham Forest defender bundled the ball home in the 67th minute but video assistant referee Peter Bankes stepped in to rule out the goal for accidental handball.

Williams and Forest manager Oliver Glasner were adamant after the match that there was no proof the ball touched an arm.

While the footage vindicates the VAR's decision, it may not end the arguments about the decision to rule out the goal.

The new camera angle was not one of those available to Bankes during the game - so it is unlikely to end the anger from Forest fans over the validity of the intervention, even if we know the VAR was ultimately correct.

On the new footage, Williams touches the ball with his left arm then his right forearm before it goes into the net.

The VAR hub only has access to the broadcast cameras, and this camera was one of several which does not transmit as part of match coverage.

Bankes believed the proof on the angles he had available came from the ripple of Williams' shirt as the ball touched his right forearm.

BBC Sport understands that Pro Ref - the new name for the refereeing body that was previously called Professional Game Match Officials (PGMO) - is completely happy with the decision to rule out the goal.

There is irritation within Pro Ref about how the story has developed, partly because Williams was so unequivocal that the ball had not touched his arm - when there is now evidence to the contrary.

"I've seen the images and the replays and at not one moment did I think I handballed it," Williams told Sky Sports.

"I have seen all the images and at not one moment can you tell that has clearly hit my arms, because it never. I knew straight away I've headed it down in between my arms. It didn't hit my arm."

The feeling is that if Williams had not been so certain with his comments that the criticism would not have been as strong.

Read more on the context surrounding Williams' disallowed goal

We asked for your thoughts after Saturday's Premier League game between Nottingham Forest and Tottenham.

Here are some of your comments:

Forest fans

Peter: The VAR call was ridiculous but at least we didn't lose. My biggest concern is our poor form at the City Ground. Is it now one win in our past 11 league games? We have to improve at home if we're to progress this season.

Sean: Going forward, our passing was crisp and precise and we should have put more away before the disallowed goal. I've got concerns about our defending, though, as we always seem to leave too much space or get into a situation where it feels like a last-gasp or hanging-on style of defending. A point is a point at least, and the signs are looking a lot better in terms of our performance. Liam Delap could be the signing of the season for us.

Tony: Forest were good enough for three points. Everyone is agreeing that there was no clear and obvious error in the referee's original decision but no-one has mentioned that, when the ball went over the line, neither of the Spurs defenders appealed for handball.

James: Poor VAR decisions throughout. Goal should have stood, we should have had a penalty and Spurs got away with some rough challenges. But we still shuld have done better.

Spurs fans

Trev: Some improvement in defence against an average opposition. Disappointed at the performance in central midfield, where there were very few quick, intelligent passes. Pedro Porro was good as usual. Mathys Tel lacked incisiveness on the left, allowing the opposition too much time.

Neil: Nothing to panic about. Anyone who has objectively watched all three games can see the improvement in each. I'm expecting a win against Everton on Saturday. My son is being born on Tuesday and it will be the first game he watches. That's got to bring us some luck... right?

Ricky: We are in another relegation battle. It's obvious to see on the pitch that none of our expensive new signings are fully committed to the club. We should have saved our money and kept Luke Vuskovic, Mikey Moore and Will Lankshear rather than invest in players that Manchester City, Chelsea and Brighton were more than happy to sell to us!

Edward: We need time. A goalless draw is a good sign and start. Now we need to build on that. Building on scoring and trying to win are the next priorities. Then from there, we start to build a better understanding among the players and then that's when you get the idea of team spirit and structure. All this needs to happen but none of it happens overnight. Please be patient and then good things will happen.

Niall McCaughan
Final Score reporter at the City Ground

Image source, Getty Images

There was never any doubt that lots of discussion post-match would be about Tottenham, their start to the season and the big spend on players this summer.

Sometimes, though, the best signings are free.

Have Nottingham Forest got themselves a gem in Xaver Schlager?

The Austria international arrived at the City Ground on a free transfer this summer after spending the past four years with RB Leipzig, reuniting with ex-boss Oliver Glasner, who previously coached him at Wolfsburg.

Against Spurs, he was outstanding. Full of energy, strong in the tackle, looking to be positive in possession. He cut the figure of one of those players who perhaps goes about his business without much fuss. The final stats showed he won 100% of his tackles and had a 90% pass accuracy rate.

In a summer when more money has been spent than ever before - including hundreds of millions of talent on display at the City Ground on Saturday - could a player picked up for nothing become one of the best signings of the season?

Dale Johnson
Football issues correspondent

Image source, Getty Images

The biggest issue with judging handball is often determining if the ball did actually hit the arm, and that is the crux of Nottingham Forest's argument.

Neco Williams is adamant the ball came off his head and did not touch his hand, evidence which of course would not be available to the VAR.

Even having a chip in the ball, like at the World Cup, would not help here as the head and hands were so close together.

This is not about a clear and obvious error, as that covers subjective incidents like potential penalties.

It is a factual overturn so the VAR, Peter Bankes, is looking for definitive proof. This is similar but without taking into account what the referee, Craig Pawson, says he has seen.

Definitive proof can be seen as a higher bar than clear and obvious, because it is a factual decision - that the ball definitely touched the goalscorer's arm.

Oliver Glasner, Williams and most of the Forest fanbase refuse to accept that evidence does exist, and that there were no grounds to disallow the goal.

These decisions come down to one factor - the judgement of who is in the VAR room on a given match.

It is unavoidable that another VAR on a different day might feel the threshold of proof had not been crossed, and allow the goal to stand.

And this will always be one of the major frustrations with VAR.

Harry Maguire's goal against Ipswich last weekend was allowed despite a handball because his shot was going wide before it was deflected, meaning it was an own goal.

In Williams' case, he actually was the goalscorer so any touch on the arm means the goal must be ruled out.

The only thing that would have saved the goal was if the ball had fully crossed the line before it was kicked against Williams.

Read more here

Match of the Day pundits Danny Murphy and Rob Edwards say Nottingham Forest should feel hard done by after Neco Williams' goal was chalked off by VAR.

Nick Mashiter
Football reporter

Image source, Getty Images

Oliver Glasner took the applause from the emptying City Ground as he grabbed his coat from the dugout.

They are yet to see his Nottingham Forest side score a goal at home this season but their frustration was directed to referee Craig Pawson.

The decision to disallow Neco Williams' goal, after Micky van de Ven and Sandro Tonali failed to clear Morgan Gibbs-White's goalbound chip, drew most of their anger.

It was controversial, Williams bundling in during comical Spurs defending, and added to the frustration of opening the season to two draws and a defeat.

Glasner knows - and has said - he needs time and Forest showed enough willing and determination to prove they are on the right track, even without the victory.